Notices tagged with systemd, page 2
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t̵̪̣̝̰̞̤̤̐͆ș̯͎͑ͅu̶̱̦ͦͫ̚u̶͋̀͋ͧͯ̄u̻ͮͨͨͩ̆̋ͤư͇̪̗͍̼̔̏ǔ̦͇̖͈̈͂͋͜~̶̃̊̉́̋́̎🏴 (tsu@social.tsuki.club)'s status on Monday, 03-Sep-2018 09:29:25 UTC t̵̪̣̝̰̞̤̤̐͆ș̯͎͑ͅu̶̱̦ͦͫ̚u̶͋̀͋ͧͯ̄u̻ͮͨͨͩ̆̋ͤư͇̪̗͍̼̔̏ǔ̦͇̖͈̈͂͋͜~̶̃̊̉́̋́̎🏴 as much of a hell as this will sound, it's still a lot cleaner and less burny then propriteary operating systems, like windows, mac, chrome os, or /we
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my #linux flavor recommendations stem from a perspective of attack vectors
#systemd is in a large part a large attack surface, as well as operating systems which generalize use while building for #systemd or using #glibc instead of #musclibc, then using #aur and #aurhelpers or in the case of debian, random community builds and repos, can be a big risk
even though i use #gentoo as a more trust worthy os, after understanding linux space more, i wouldn't /trust/ it necessarily, because even i pull a few packages from git based repos, and git is not secure, at all. not to mention, it takes some time to poke through packages for cves, or using tools like #glsa (https://security.gentoo.org/glsa) to monitor security threats
then there's also the issue of avoiding micro code updates, and not including those packages for higher risk attack vectors -
t̵̪̣̝̰̞̤̤̐͆ș̯͎͑ͅu̶̱̦ͦͫ̚u̶͋̀͋ͧͯ̄u̻ͮͨͨͩ̆̋ͤư͇̪̗͍̼̔̏ǔ̦͇̖͈̈͂͋͜~̶̃̊̉́̋́̎🏴 (tsu@social.tsuki.club)'s status on Monday, 03-Sep-2018 09:11:31 UTC t̵̪̣̝̰̞̤̤̐͆ș̯͎͑ͅu̶̱̦ͦͫ̚u̶͋̀͋ͧͯ̄u̻ͮͨͨͩ̆̋ͤư͇̪̗͍̼̔̏ǔ̦͇̖͈̈͂͋͜~̶̃̊̉́̋́̎🏴 @caela i had a good time last year while using it. install was straight forward, and the docs are good, where they lack, the #arch #gentoo #debian docs fill in well
otherwise, i dno how to express its use other than comparing it to other distros...
felt a lot better long term than arch. arch is kind of in a tough spot as much as i love them
i would recommend avoiding anything #arch #archlinux or #debian based unless it's a #systemd free repo, there's a lot of malware competition for those lately
and definitely trying #voidlinux or moving towards #artix or #devuan -
Shawn Webb (lattera@bsd.network@bsd.network)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jul-2018 23:57:00 UTC Shawn Webb @saper @laylo Why needs #systemd to increase your boot performance when you have Colin Percival?
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Vee Satayamas (veer66@mastodon.xyz)'s status on Friday, 13-Jul-2018 04:31:40 UTC Vee Satayamas Using systemd is fine for me. But please use it for 10+ years.
After I learned to use rc.d, I moved to Upstart because people use Ubuntu on a server.
After I created only *one* service using Upstart, servers have moved to #systemd. 😱
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Shawn Webb (lattera@bsd.network@bsd.network)'s status on Friday, 08-Jun-2018 13:44:56 UTC Shawn Webb #BSDCan (Tragedy of #SystemD): Benno would like consistent device naming, somewhat similar to how SystemD names network devices. This would allow us to remove more Giant locks and parallelize device probing and initialization.
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Shawn Webb (lattera@bsd.network@bsd.network)'s status on Friday, 08-Jun-2018 13:44:10 UTC Shawn Webb #BSDCan (Tragedy of #SystemD): We need to do a lot more work for containers.
Essentially, we need to build a system management layer.
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Shawn Webb (lattera@bsd.network@bsd.network)'s status on Friday, 08-Jun-2018 13:43:18 UTC Shawn Webb #BSDCan (Tragedy of #SystemD): What can we get from SystemD?
We shouldn't adopt it, but what ideas could we borrow?
First-class message transport would be cool. By placing the message transport in the kernel, the kernel could enforce identity management in messages.
An RPC framework.
A service lifecycle.
All of these things [and more that I couldn't type fast enough] would give us automation via API.
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Shawn Webb (lattera@bsd.network@bsd.network)'s status on Friday, 08-Jun-2018 13:40:56 UTC Shawn Webb #BSDCan (Tragedy of #SystemD): Such a large amount of change can cause a knee-jerk reaction.
Abuse isn't cool. Lennart has received death threats.
Contempt isn't cool. Mocking SystemD is equally uncool.
We in the BSDs don't really want to bring an attitude of abuse or contempt.
[Personal note: I've received both death threats and mocking from the BSD community for my involvement in #HardenedBSD. It's refreshing to see this kind of conversation from Benno.]
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Shawn Webb (lattera@bsd.network@bsd.network)'s status on Friday, 08-Jun-2018 13:38:46 UTC Shawn Webb #BSDCan (Tragedy of #SystemD): SystemD represents change. This brings us to the tragedy of the piece. It's really scary when it threatens things you find familiar.
We love change when we're the ones doing it. We dislike or fear it when someone else does it.
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Shawn Webb (lattera@bsd.network@bsd.network)'s status on Friday, 08-Jun-2018 13:36:44 UTC Shawn Webb #BSDCan (Tragedy of #SystemD): Another complaint: "It's not portable!"
That's a valid complaint. But, UNIX as a concept, is dead. This notion of portability and careful development is dead. Because Linux is in such a dominant position can do whatever they like.
We in the BSDs get to be equally liberated. We can do whatever we want.
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Shawn Webb (lattera@bsd.network@bsd.network)'s status on Friday, 08-Jun-2018 13:33:52 UTC Shawn Webb #BSDCan (Tragedy of #SystemD): We're gonna look at the complaints about SystemD.
Complaint 1: "It violates UNIX philosophy!"
Complaint 2: "It's bloated and monolithic!"
Complaint 3: "It's buggy!" C'mon, it's software. We've all had fun bugs.
A lot of people say "PID 1 cannot fail!" Essentially, that means people are saying PID 1 can never be replaced/rewritten. Plays into the "we've always done it this way" falacy.
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Shawn Webb (lattera@bsd.network@bsd.network)'s status on Friday, 08-Jun-2018 13:30:19 UTC Shawn Webb #BSDCan (Tragedy of #SystemD): The reason why SystemD is so large is because it's building that system management layer between userspace and kernel. They have to bring in udev, ntp, etc. because those are tools typically used in userland. Building the system management layer means bringing those things in for a coherent experience.
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Shawn Webb (lattera@bsd.network@bsd.network)'s status on Friday, 08-Jun-2018 13:29:12 UTC Shawn Webb #BSDCan (Tragedy of #SystemD): SystemD is about system management. There's an understanding that is understood in other places. We tend to think of the universe as being just userspace and kernel.
The dynamic stuff is better managed through userspace than the kernel.
SystemD adds a layer in the middle: the system layer. Network management, time, things don't necessarily belong in the userspace or in the kernel.
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Shawn Webb (lattera@bsd.network@bsd.network)'s status on Friday, 08-Jun-2018 13:27:24 UTC Shawn Webb #BSDCan (Tragedy of #SystemD): "An init system that is responsible for maintaining services needs to listen to hardware and software changes." -- Lennart, "Rethinking PID 1"
Systems need to be reactive.
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Shawn Webb (lattera@bsd.network@bsd.network)'s status on Friday, 08-Jun-2018 13:26:43 UTC Shawn Webb #BSDCan (Tragedy of #SystemD): Services aren't started until they're needed.
In 2010, Lennart looked to enhance how Linux managed services. He looked at Upstart from Canonical, wasn't impressed. He liked how launchd worked.
Take a look at Lennart's "Rethinking PID 1" article.
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Shawn Webb (lattera@bsd.network@bsd.network)'s status on Friday, 08-Jun-2018 13:24:54 UTC Shawn Webb #BSDCan (Tragedy of #SystemD): The idea behind SystemD started with launchd from OSX. It's an events-based service management system. The idea is that when something in the environment changes (aka, an event), the services management solution should perform an action.
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Shawn Webb (lattera@bsd.network@bsd.network)'s status on Friday, 08-Jun-2018 13:23:45 UTC Shawn Webb #BSDCan (Tragedy of #SystemD): We've gotten used to how the current rc system works.
Other environments handle services well. Microsoft Windows NT does it really well. macOS/iOS launchd.
Now we're getting into the idea of SystemD.
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Shawn Webb (lattera@bsd.network@bsd.network)'s status on Friday, 08-Jun-2018 13:22:37 UTC Shawn Webb #BSDCan (Tragedy of #SystemD): What the traditional rc system doesn't do is automated service management.
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Shawn Webb (lattera@bsd.network@bsd.network)'s status on Friday, 08-Jun-2018 13:21:46 UTC Shawn Webb #BSDCan (Tragedy of #SystemD): Essentially, init could be viewed as system configuration. Especially with it responsible for mounting filesystems and bootstrapping/starting services.
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Shawn Webb (lattera@bsd.network@bsd.network)'s status on Friday, 08-Jun-2018 13:20:18 UTC Shawn Webb #BSDCan (Tragedy of #SystemD): inetd has an interesting history. Services would usually use inetd. This turned out to be not-well-suited for applications that require a lot of persistent state.
Then things changed. It seems glim to see the Internet happened. You see large applications that needed to keep lots of state. You start to see the notion of a stand-alone service, now called a daemon.