The Tcl scripting language and related projects (tcltk) group

Notices

1. Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Mar-2018 16:34:19 UTC Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1)

   • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
   Also thinking of replacing the #Mageia install with #OpenSuse. Mostly because I want to use #OpenVPN and I want a !TclTk installation that doesn't segfault every time I try to use it.
   • Linux Walt (@lnxw37a1) repeated this.
   • Show all 6 replies
   • Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Mar-2018 17:17:49 UTC Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1)

     in reply to

     • Dirk Olmes
     • cykros
     @dirkolmes @cykros The only reason I'm (temporarily) replacing #Gentoo is because I've been traveling too much. I was gone about 28 months.
   • Dirk Olmes (dirkolmes)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Mar-2018 17:36:29 UTC Dirk Olmes

     Remote profile options...

     in reply to

     • cykros

     @lnxw48a1 @cykros so you say updating a 28 month old install smells like trouble .... so true

     Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) likes this.
   • cykros (cykros)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Mar-2018 20:00:18 UTC cykros

     Remote profile options...

     in reply to

     • Dirk Olmes

     @dirkolmes @lnxw48a1

     Honestly, that sounds like more trouble on a rolling release distro than something more geared around stable releases such as Slackware or Debian stable. With Slackware the issue you'd run into is that any non-official packages get blown away (well, they SHOULD be...good luck if you opt not to), which can take some recovering from. Debian can be a little less stable of an upgrade process for dist-upgrade, but does at least keep all your software in place when it works.

2. Hallå Kitteh (clacke)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Jan-2018 07:19:34 UTC Hallå Kitteh

   Remote profile options...

   • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
   The kind of bash script I'm writing at the moment, I wish that Tcl would still be considered an acceptable language to write things in.
   
   For what I'm doing, bash still beats Python in readability and usability. But Tcl would be a better suited language than both.
   
   !tcltk
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke)'s status on Tuesday, 16-Jan-2018 07:26:01 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     Remote profile options...

     • Normandy
     @normandy Huh, interesting.
     
     https://www.doulos.com/knowhow/fpga/Automating_Tool_Flows_with_Tcl/quartus.php
     
     So it's an FPGA tool that is configured through Tcl?
3. Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Friday, 01-Dec-2017 01:38:19 UTC Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1)

   • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
   • D Language and related projects
   • Smalltalk, Self, IO, etc
   • notklaatu
   Tried out subbing to the "BSD Now" podcast. Interesting, but the two episodes I've listened to are about four times too long and filled with babbling. Within 5-10 minutes, I've tuned out. #BSDNow
   
   I think I'm going to unsubscribe, which will leave me with two:
   * Hacker Public Radio -- I've resubbed for the past couple of weeks and I have not burned out yet. Maybe I'm just a fan of @klaatu ;-) #HPR
   * Smalltalk Reflections -- This one is on another unannounced hiatus. I should probably take a look around and see whether there are any other !Smalltalk podcasts in currently active production.
   
   I haven't really looked for them yet, but I'd be interested in trying out podcasts that focus mostly on !TclTk or !DLang.
   • Ocean Man 🌊, notklaatu and Phalax like this.
   • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Zak Storer 🎡 (zacts)'s status on Friday, 01-Dec-2017 03:51:55 UTC Zak Storer 🎡

     Remote profile options...

     in reply to

     • notklaatu

     @lnxw48a1 @klaatu Have you listened to Gnu World Order, lots of babbling, but I like it.

   • notklaatu (klaatu)'s status on Friday, 01-Dec-2017 03:53:25 UTC notklaatu

     Remote profile options...

     in reply to

     • Zak Storer 🎡

     @zacts @lnxw48a1 I listen to it on occasion. Not bad. I'm staying subscribed for now.

   • Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Friday, 01-Dec-2017 04:23:52 UTC Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1)

     in reply to

     • Zak Storer 🎡
     • notklaatu
     @klaatu @zacts I'll check that one out.
     Zak Storer 🎡 likes this.
4. Hallå Kitteh (clacke)'s status on Sunday, 26-Nov-2017 17:04:51 UTC Hallå Kitteh

   Remote profile options...

   • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
   • Hallå Kitteh
   Also cool: The iSpin GUI wrapper around the CLI spin is in !tcltk :-)
   • Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) and Linux Walt like this.
5. Hallå Kitteh (clacke)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2017 04:42:33 UTC Hallå Kitteh

   Remote profile options...
   Kick-Ass PyConHK tee: acquired https://social.heldscal.la/attachment/917931
   • awg likes this.
   • Show all 13 replies
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2017 07:30:39 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     Remote profile options...

     in reply to

     • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
     • awg
     @awg I need to find an excuse to make use of python's built-in !tcltk interpreter and present something next year. :-D
     Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) and awg like this.
   • awg (awg)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2017 07:32:21 UTC awg

     Remote profile options...

     in reply to
     @clacke it seems perfectly suited for this application!
     
     >only needed parts of code copied without the rest
     wtf, I love these devs already
     Hallå Kitteh likes this.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke)'s status on Sunday, 05-Nov-2017 08:14:48 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     Remote profile options...

     in reply to

     • awg
     @awg I conveyed my same sentiment.
     
     https://twitter.com/clacke/status/927078642974257152
     awg likes this.
6. Nate Cull (natecull)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Oct-2017 23:23:06 UTC Nate Cull

   Remote profile options...

   Maybe what I want is 'microservices for the desktop'

   But maybe that's also an objectively terrible thing to want.

   Maybe I want Tcl/Tk and I've just been too lazy to learn it.

   Narrator: He was.

   • Show all 7 replies
   • Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Thursday, 05-Oct-2017 02:25:37 UTC Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1)

     in reply to

     • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
     @natecull I believe !tcltk dates back to the early #1980s, so that explains some of the legacy cruft. (I don't see much use for octals any more, but maybe it is time for a oX [small-oh eks] prefix if they are still needed. 0X [zero eks], of course, should be reserved for hexadecimals, which are still useful.)
     Nate Cull likes this.
   • Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Thursday, 05-Oct-2017 03:17:03 UTC Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1)

     in reply to

     • Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1)
     • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
     History of !tcltk http://www.tcl.tk/about/history.html
   • Vertigo @ BLFC (vertigo)'s status on Thursday, 05-Oct-2017 06:07:57 UTC Vertigo @ BLFC

     Remote profile options...

     in reply to

     • Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1)

     @lnxw48a1 @natecull We should stop trying to reinvent the wheel all the time. IBM solved this with their mainframe assembly and PL/I syntax using annotated strings (e.g., '3C'X versus '00111100'B). Smalltalk (IIRC) has a similar generic approach (16r3C and 2r00111100), though I admit I prefer IBM's notation simply because it seems more open-ended.

7. Hallå Kitteh (clacke)'s status on Thursday, 21-Sep-2017 23:50:26 UTC Hallå Kitteh

   Remote profile options...

   • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
   These days I often catch myself thinking "Why are we doing X in Python?".
   
   It's just because doing it in bash would be terrible because bash.
   
   In one place we have basically implemented shell script as an array of arrays of strings. More or less a shell AST that we the assemble into exec calls. This allows us to say things about the different actions and turn on and off things like "this particular thing here should be silent this time around". Also it lets us DRY things up, and hook into parts of our (Python-written) build system for sources of knowledge.
   
   It is horrible. But I can't argue that it's worse than going Full Bash.
   
   And then I think that I wish there were an in-between that would be convenient for shell-like things yet have proper orthogonal language constructs and higher-order concepts.
   
   And then I think that it's too bad I would never be able to get my colleagues on the !tcltk train.
   • Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) repeated this.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2017 09:20:44 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     Remote profile options...

     • Alan Zimmerman
     @alanz Intriguing.
8. Hallå Kitteh (clacke)'s status on Thursday, 10-Aug-2017 04:39:36 UTC Hallå Kitteh

   Remote profile options...

   • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
   Learned[0] that !tcltk is developed on #fossil. Not super surprising considering there seems to be a bit of overlap between the #sqlite and tcl communities.
   
   http://wiki.tcl.tk/36711
   
   [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14942651
   • Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) and awg like this.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke)'s status on Sunday, 13-Aug-2017 13:08:11 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     Remote profile options...

     • Vertigo @ BLFC
     @vertigo I find it interesting but so far didn't take the time to try it out.
9. Hallå Kitteh (clacke)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2017 13:40:56 UTC Hallå Kitteh

   Remote profile options...

   • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
   The rise and decline of !tcltk : an analysis.
   
   It's a good read and written in quite a narrative form, so I think I'm going to read it out loud as an #hprep.
   
   https://journal.dedasys.com/2010/03/30/where-tcl-and-tk-went-wrong/
   • Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) and Dave Morriss like this.
   • Show all 40 replies
   • Dave Morriss (perloid)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2017 08:31:36 UTC Dave Morriss

     Remote profile options...

     in reply to
     @clacke Done. Have a look at the result ...
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2017 09:14:08 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     Remote profile options...

     in reply to

     • Dave Morriss
     @perloid Third iteration's the charm!
     
     So funny that it hasn't "aired" yet, feels like I posted it ages ago. :-)
   • Dave Morriss (perloid)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2017 10:39:18 UTC Dave Morriss

     Remote profile options...

     in reply to
     @clacke Great! Looking forward to listening since Tcl was a favourite of mine at one time
     Hallå Kitteh likes this.
10. Hallå Kitteh (clacke)'s status on Friday, 21-Jul-2017 01:01:39 UTC Hallå Kitteh

    Remote profile options...

    • Jakob
    @jakob There are definitely languages that *should* only be used for trivial tasks. But then you give them to humans and you get web application servers written in awk.
    • Hallå Kitteh (clacke)'s status on Friday, 21-Jul-2017 04:02:04 UTC Hallå Kitteh

      Remote profile options...

      in reply to

      • Hazukashii
      • Jakob
      • flock of birbs
      • Christopher Lemmer Webber
      @moonman @jakob @dthompson @cwebber
      
      But even if one accepts the premise that apart from guix-daemon guix is just a big DSL or whatever, and maybe that wouldn't count, there are components of the implementation of that DSL that are worthy of being called complete apps on their own, like the cpio implementation.
    • Christopher Lemmer Webber (cwebber)'s status on Friday, 21-Jul-2017 13:13:58 UTC Christopher Lemmer Webber

      Remote profile options...

      in reply to

      • Hazukashii
      • Jakob
      • flock of birbs

      @clacke @dthompson @jakob @moonman Guix does have a lot of DSL, but also a ton of functionality written in that same language that isn't just package definitions... vm support, environment stuff, etc. There's 50k lines of scheme in the "guix" subdirectory, none of which is package definitions.

      Hallå Kitteh likes this.
      Hallå Kitteh repeated this.
    • flock of birbs (dthompson)'s status on Friday, 21-Jul-2017 13:14:55 UTC flock of birbs

      Remote profile options...

      in reply to

      • Hazukashii
      • Jakob
      • Christopher Lemmer Webber

      @cwebber @clacke @jakob @moonman I have a Linux container implementation in there, for example. Lots of useful libraries in Guix.

      Hallå Kitteh likes this.
      Hallå Kitteh repeated this.
11. Hallå Kitteh (clacke)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Jul-2017 04:40:16 UTC Hallå Kitteh

    Remote profile options...

    • Maiyannah of Mirrah
    • Verius
    • awavauatush
    @ninjawedding @verius @maiyannah Reminds me a bit of how !tcl chooses different in-memory representations of an object depending on how you use it.
    • awavauatush (ninjawedding)'s status on Monday, 17-Jul-2017 15:28:45 UTC awavauatush

      Remote profile options...
      "Array Layouts for Comparison-Based Searching": https://arxiv.org/pdf/1509.05053.pdf
      
      One thing that I've had to repeatedly struggle with in gamedev is the importance of keeping the CPU fed with data. This usually means predictable memory access patterns and contiguous data structure layouts.
      
      Unfortunately some very useful data structures -- maps, for instance -- are usually implemented in a way that are non-contiguous and don't have predictable access patterns. What do? Well, the easiest (and often quite sufficient) way is to maintain a array of (key, value) tuples, sorted on key, and binary-search it. There are other methods, though, and this paper is a neat survey of those methods.
      
      Bonus: Section 2, "Processor Architecture Considerations", seems to me to be a pretty good overview of just how badly memory latency will slow your code down and the methods employed by CPUs to overcome that latency.
      Hallå Kitteh likes this.
      Hallå Kitteh repeated this.
    • Hallå Kitteh (clacke)'s status on Monday, 17-Jul-2017 16:25:43 UTC Hallå Kitteh

      Remote profile options...

      • Maiyannah of Mirrah
      • awavauatush
      @ninjawedding @maiyannah http://wiki.c2.com/?AlternateHardAndSoftLayers is a time-honored tradition.
      
      I haven't played with Lua, but it I were to use Lua and interface with C libraries, I would have a look at http://terralang.org/ , which looks very interesting.
      
      I have to say though that Python's ctypes, which supposedly were inspired by Lua's C integration, work surprisingly well, at least for simple things. For the less-simple things, we have written a Dwarf parser at work, which can dynamically create the types by introspecting the debug data of the C code.
    • Hallå Kitteh (clacke)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Jul-2017 04:41:43 UTC Hallå Kitteh

      Remote profile options...

      in reply to

      • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
      And by !tcl I mean !tcltk .
12. Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Sunday, 16-Jul-2017 02:30:26 UTC Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1)

    • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
    Paste at https://pointer.federati.net//?f0975ce5e719e493#2aHRqQcMfjBhCA1SkiKhG++v0p6g2+FPm9p1oV0wfrE= has been copied to https://pastebin.com/kZuPW1hB for longer lifespan.
    
    Consider it an untested work in progress. It's !TclTK, and meant to repair the database entries after an instance moves from HTTP to HTTPS. Use at your own (and your instance's users') risk.
13. moved to https://mastodon.xyz/@veer66 (vsatayamas)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2017 23:45:57 UTC moved to https://mastodon.xyz/@veer66

    Remote profile options...
    Among Squeak, Flash on GNU/Linux, Tkinter (Tk), is there anyone of them display Thai text properly? #twt
    • Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2017 23:55:40 UTC Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1)

      in reply to

      • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
      • Smalltalk, Self, IO, etc
      Do they use system fonts? I know !TclTk supports #Unicode at the script level, but I'm not sure about the GUI. Squeak !Smalltalk 3.8+ also supports Unicode.
      moved to https://mastodon.xyz/@veer66 likes this.
14. Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Thursday, 15-Jun-2017 02:11:04 UTC Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1)

    • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
    Kernighan on !TclTk https://youtu.be/vT_J6xc-Az0
    • Dave Morriss (perloid)'s status on Thursday, 15-Jun-2017 10:53:10 UTC Dave Morriss

      Remote profile options...

      in reply to
      @lnxw48a1 Great video. Thanks! I used Tcl/Tk a lot when we had DECAthena systems at the university I worked at. Good to get BK's view of it
      Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) likes this.
15. Christopher M. Hobbs (hobbsc)'s status on Friday, 26-May-2017 01:32:28 UTC Christopher M. Hobbs

    Remote profile options...
    Next up:  functions, classes, files, and tests (so happy this book includes unit testing!).  I'll probably work through the sample projects to get my head around some idiomatic Python 3 as well.
    
    Python 3 reminds me of my halcyon days with Perl so many years ago.  Ruby never gave me this kind of vibe.  Ruby always felt more expedient.  Common Lisp always made me feel erudite.  I just need to get things done these days and I like to have some insight on what's happening under the hood.
    • Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) likes this.
    • Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Friday, 26-May-2017 02:06:37 UTC Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1)

      in reply to

      • Python
      • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
      @hobbsc I don't do much with it, but I must admit !Python 3 feels very natural, like speaking US English does. It's tied with !TclTk for my favorite lang.
      Christopher M. Hobbs and Hallå Kitteh like this.
    • Christopher M. Hobbs (hobbsc)'s status on Friday, 26-May-2017 02:07:06 UTC Christopher M. Hobbs

      Remote profile options...

      in reply to

      • Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1)
      @lnxw48a1 i used to love tcl/tk so very much
16. Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Friday, 19-May-2017 21:48:36 UTC Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1)
    Another message queueing system by the creator of #Redis: #Disque https://github.com/antirez/disque
    • Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Saturday, 20-May-2017 02:13:11 UTC Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1)

      in reply to

      • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
      Also by antirez, Tcl the misunderstood http://antirez.com/articoli/tclmisunderstood.html explaining why !tcltk is still a worthwhile language.
      Hallå Kitteh, awg and liate 💾 like this.
      Hallå Kitteh repeated this.
    • awg (awg)'s status on Monday, 17-Jul-2017 09:01:43 UTC awg

      Remote profile options...

      in reply to
      @lnxw48a1 worthwhile, indeed.
17. Zak Storer 🎡 (zacts)'s status on Wednesday, 17-May-2017 02:01:54 UTC Zak Storer 🎡

    Remote profile options...

    puts "yeah"

    • Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Wednesday, 17-May-2017 02:04:32 UTC Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1)

      in reply to

      • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
      @zacts #Ruby? Or !TclTk?
18. Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Sunday, 23-Apr-2017 17:18:10 UTC Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1)

    • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
    Updated the !tcltk script to change your instance's db entries for $GS_INSTANCE from HTTP to HTTPS. https://pointer.federati.net//?f0975ce5e719e493#2aHRqQcMfjBhCA1SkiKhG++v0p6g2+FPm9p1oV0wfrE=
    
    IMPORTANT: Still *NOT* tested, so please do not use in production.
19. Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Sunday, 23-Apr-2017 17:15:42 UTC Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1)

    • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
    • @mcscx@quitter.se
    Updated the !tcltk script to change your instance's db entries for $GS_INSTANCE from HTTP to HTTPS. https://pointer.federati.net//?f0975ce5e719e493#2aHRqQcMfjBhCA1SkiKhG++v0p6g2+FPm9p1oV0wfrE=
    
    IMPORTANT: Still *NOT* tested, so please do not use in production.
    • @mcscx@quitter.se likes this.
    • @mcscx@quitter.se repeated this.
20. Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Friday, 21-Apr-2017 22:58:29 UTC Universally Unique LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1)

    • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
    Partial response to an instance changing HTTP --> HTTPS, breaking subs: https://pointer.federati.net//?cf987c48a445c2ca#kYpMPjkVgZARbsjlZcE3tePGtNk8MON74p1JSdP9HmE=
    
    !tcltk
    
    WIP and not tested yet (I need to create another test instance without TLS, then change after it connects to the first test instance).