The Tcl scripting language and related projects (tcltk) group

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1. It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France! (clacke)'s status on Thursday, 21-Sep-2017 23:50:26 UTC It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France!

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   • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
   These days I often catch myself thinking "Why are we doing X in Python?".
   
   It's just because doing it in bash would be terrible because bash.
   
   In one place we have basically implemented shell script as an array of arrays of strings. More or less a shell AST that we the assemble into exec calls. This allows us to say things about the different actions and turn on and off things like "this particular thing here should be silent this time around". Also it lets us DRY things up, and hook into parts of our (Python-written) build system for sources of knowledge.
   
   It is horrible. But I can't argue that it's worse than going Full Bash.
   
   And then I think that I wish there were an in-between that would be convenient for shell-like things yet have proper orthogonal language constructs and higher-order concepts.
   
   And then I think that it's too bad I would never be able to get my colleagues on the !tcltk train.
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   • It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France! (clacke)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2017 09:20:44 UTC It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France!

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     • Alan Zimmerman
     @alanz Intriguing.
2. It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France! (clacke)'s status on Thursday, 10-Aug-2017 04:39:36 UTC It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France!

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   • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
   Learned[0] that !tcltk is developed on #fossil. Not super surprising considering there seems to be a bit of overlap between the #sqlite and tcl communities.
   
   http://wiki.tcl.tk/36711
   
   [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14942651
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   • It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France! (clacke)'s status on Sunday, 13-Aug-2017 13:08:11 UTC It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France!

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     • Vertigo
     @vertigo I find it interesting but so far didn't take the time to try it out.
3. It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France! (clacke)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2017 13:40:56 UTC It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France!

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   • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
   The rise and decline of !tcltk : an analysis.
   
   It's a good read and written in quite a narrative form, so I think I'm going to read it out loud as an #hprep.
   
   https://journal.dedasys.com/2010/03/30/where-tcl-and-tk-went-wrong/
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   • Dave Morriss (perloid)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2017 08:31:36 UTC Dave Morriss

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     @clacke Done. Have a look at the result ...
   • It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France! (clacke)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2017 09:14:08 UTC It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France!

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     • Dave Morriss
     @perloid Third iteration's the charm!
     
     So funny that it hasn't "aired" yet, feels like I posted it ages ago. :-)
   • Dave Morriss (perloid)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2017 10:39:18 UTC Dave Morriss

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     @clacke Great! Looking forward to listening since Tcl was a favourite of mine at one time
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4. It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France! (clacke)'s status on Friday, 21-Jul-2017 01:01:39 UTC It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France!

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   • Jakob
   @jakob There are definitely languages that *should* only be used for trivial tasks. But then you give them to humans and you get web application servers written in awk.
   • It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France! (clacke)'s status on Friday, 21-Jul-2017 04:02:04 UTC It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France!

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     • Hazukashii
     • Jakob
     • David Thompson
     • Christopher Allan Webber
     @moonman @jakob @dthompson @cwebber
     
     But even if one accepts the premise that apart from guix-daemon guix is just a big DSL or whatever, and maybe that wouldn't count, there are components of the implementation of that DSL that are worthy of being called complete apps on their own, like the cpio implementation.
   • Christopher Allan Webber (cwebber)'s status on Friday, 21-Jul-2017 13:13:58 UTC Christopher Allan Webber

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     • Hazukashii
     • Jakob
     • David Thompson

     @clacke @dthompson @jakob @moonman Guix does have a lot of DSL, but also a ton of functionality written in that same language that isn't just package definitions... vm support, environment stuff, etc. There's 50k lines of scheme in the "guix" subdirectory, none of which is package definitions.

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   • David Thompson (dthompson)'s status on Friday, 21-Jul-2017 13:14:55 UTC David Thompson

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     • Hazukashii
     • Jakob
     • Christopher Allan Webber

     @cwebber @clacke @jakob @moonman I have a Linux container implementation in there, for example. Lots of useful libraries in Guix.

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5. It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France! (clacke)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Jul-2017 04:40:16 UTC It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France!

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   • Maiyannah Bishop ᛗᚢᚫᛞᚺᚾᚫ
   • Verius
   • 𐩕
   @ninjawedding @verius @maiyannah Reminds me a bit of how !tcl chooses different in-memory representations of an object depending on how you use it.
   • 𐩕 (ninjawedding)'s status on Monday, 17-Jul-2017 15:28:45 UTC 𐩕

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     "Array Layouts for Comparison-Based Searching": https://arxiv.org/pdf/1509.05053.pdf
     
     One thing that I've had to repeatedly struggle with in gamedev is the importance of keeping the CPU fed with data. This usually means predictable memory access patterns and contiguous data structure layouts.
     
     Unfortunately some very useful data structures -- maps, for instance -- are usually implemented in a way that are non-contiguous and don't have predictable access patterns. What do? Well, the easiest (and often quite sufficient) way is to maintain a array of (key, value) tuples, sorted on key, and binary-search it. There are other methods, though, and this paper is a neat survey of those methods.
     
     Bonus: Section 2, "Processor Architecture Considerations", seems to me to be a pretty good overview of just how badly memory latency will slow your code down and the methods employed by CPUs to overcome that latency.
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   • It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France! (clacke)'s status on Monday, 17-Jul-2017 16:25:43 UTC It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France!

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     • Maiyannah Bishop ᛗᚢᚫᛞᚺᚾᚫ
     • 𐩕
     @ninjawedding @maiyannah http://wiki.c2.com/?AlternateHardAndSoftLayers is a time-honored tradition.
     
     I haven't played with Lua, but it I were to use Lua and interface with C libraries, I would have a look at http://terralang.org/ , which looks very interesting.
     
     I have to say though that Python's ctypes, which supposedly were inspired by Lua's C integration, work surprisingly well, at least for simple things. For the less-simple things, we have written a Dwarf parser at work, which can dynamically create the types by introspecting the debug data of the C code.
   • It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France! (clacke)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Jul-2017 04:41:43 UTC It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France!

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     • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
     And by !tcl I mean !tcltk .
6. Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Sunday, 16-Jul-2017 02:30:26 UTC Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1)

   • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
   Paste at https://pointer.federati.net//?f0975ce5e719e493#2aHRqQcMfjBhCA1SkiKhG++v0p6g2+FPm9p1oV0wfrE= has been copied to https://pastebin.com/kZuPW1hB for longer lifespan.
   
   Consider it an untested work in progress. It's !TclTK, and meant to repair the database entries after an instance moves from HTTP to HTTPS. Use at your own (and your instance's users') risk.
7. moved to https://mastodon.xyz/@veer66 (vsatayamas)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2017 23:45:57 UTC moved to https://mastodon.xyz/@veer66

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   Among Squeak, Flash on GNU/Linux, Tkinter (Tk), is there anyone of them display Thai text properly? #twt
   • Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Saturday, 24-Jun-2017 23:55:40 UTC Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1)

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     • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
     • Smalltalk, Self, IO, etc
     Do they use system fonts? I know !TclTk supports #Unicode at the script level, but I'm not sure about the GUI. Squeak !Smalltalk 3.8+ also supports Unicode.
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8. Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Thursday, 15-Jun-2017 02:11:04 UTC Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1)

   • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
   Kernighan on !TclTk https://youtu.be/vT_J6xc-Az0
   • Dave Morriss (perloid)'s status on Thursday, 15-Jun-2017 10:53:10 UTC Dave Morriss

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     @lnxw48a1 Great video. Thanks! I used Tcl/Tk a lot when we had DECAthena systems at the university I worked at. Good to get BK's view of it
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9. Christopher M. Hobbs (hobbsc)'s status on Friday, 26-May-2017 01:32:28 UTC Christopher M. Hobbs

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   Next up:  functions, classes, files, and tests (so happy this book includes unit testing!).  I'll probably work through the sample projects to get my head around some idiomatic Python 3 as well.
   
   Python 3 reminds me of my halcyon days with Perl so many years ago.  Ruby never gave me this kind of vibe.  Ruby always felt more expedient.  Common Lisp always made me feel erudite.  I just need to get things done these days and I like to have some insight on what's happening under the hood.
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   • Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Friday, 26-May-2017 02:06:37 UTC Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1)

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     • Python
     • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
     @hobbsc I don't do much with it, but I must admit !Python 3 feels very natural, like speaking US English does. It's tied with !TclTk for my favorite lang.
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   • Christopher M. Hobbs (hobbsc)'s status on Friday, 26-May-2017 02:07:06 UTC Christopher M. Hobbs

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     • Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1)
     @lnxw48a1 i used to love tcl/tk so very much
10. Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Friday, 19-May-2017 21:48:36 UTC Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1)
    Another message queueing system by the creator of #Redis: #Disque https://github.com/antirez/disque
    • Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Saturday, 20-May-2017 02:13:11 UTC Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1)

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      • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
      Also by antirez, Tcl the misunderstood http://antirez.com/articoli/tclmisunderstood.html explaining why !tcltk is still a worthwhile language.
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    • awg (awg)'s status on Monday, 17-Jul-2017 09:01:43 UTC awg

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      @lnxw48a1 worthwhile, indeed.
11. Zak Storer 🎡 (zacts)'s status on Wednesday, 17-May-2017 02:01:54 UTC Zak Storer 🎡

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    puts "yeah"

    • Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Wednesday, 17-May-2017 02:04:32 UTC Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1)

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      • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
      @zacts #Ruby? Or !TclTk?
12. Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Sunday, 23-Apr-2017 17:18:10 UTC Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1)

    • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
    Updated the !tcltk script to change your instance's db entries for $GS_INSTANCE from HTTP to HTTPS. https://pointer.federati.net//?f0975ce5e719e493#2aHRqQcMfjBhCA1SkiKhG++v0p6g2+FPm9p1oV0wfrE=
    
    IMPORTANT: Still *NOT* tested, so please do not use in production.
13. Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Sunday, 23-Apr-2017 17:15:42 UTC Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1)

    • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
    • McScx
    Updated the !tcltk script to change your instance's db entries for $GS_INSTANCE from HTTP to HTTPS. https://pointer.federati.net//?f0975ce5e719e493#2aHRqQcMfjBhCA1SkiKhG++v0p6g2+FPm9p1oV0wfrE=
    
    IMPORTANT: Still *NOT* tested, so please do not use in production.
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14. Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Friday, 21-Apr-2017 22:58:29 UTC Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1)

    • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
    Partial response to an instance changing HTTP --> HTTPS, breaking subs: https://pointer.federati.net//?cf987c48a445c2ca#kYpMPjkVgZARbsjlZcE3tePGtNk8MON74p1JSdP9HmE=
    
    !tcltk
    
    WIP and not tested yet (I need to create another test instance without TLS, then change after it connects to the first test instance).
15. Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Monday, 10-Apr-2017 02:25:41 UTC Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1)

    • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
    Exploring a #MariaDB / #MySQL database. Taking this opportunity to mess around with #TDBC and automate some of my explorations. http://www.magicsplat.com/articles/tdbc.html !tcltk
16. Hacker News (hackernews)'s status on Saturday, 18-Feb-2017 18:01:08 UTC Hacker News

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    ParTcl – a micro Tcl implementation

    Hacker News Comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13675166

    Source: https://github.com/zserge/partcl

    #hackernews

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    • Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Saturday, 18-Feb-2017 18:04:50 UTC Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1)

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      • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
      • It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France!
      @clacke Adding to !tcltk
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17. Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2017 02:50:54 UTC Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1)

    • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
    #Tclblend and #Jacl bring #Tcl to the JVM http://tcljava.sourceforge.net/docs/website/index.html !TclTk (I'm much more likely to try these out than the dotNet implementations.)
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    • Christopher M. Hobbs (hobbsc)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2017 02:56:44 UTC Christopher M. Hobbs

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      @lnxw48a1 nice to see that tcl and tk are still in use
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    • It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France! (clacke)'s status on Saturday, 18-Feb-2017 19:49:03 UTC It is we, Queen Maria de Medici of France!

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      • Christopher M. Hobbs
      @hobbsc @lnxw48a1 IBM WebSphere used #jacl for their administration CLI and scripts originally, but switched to #jython starting 2006.
      
      enwp.org/IBM_WebSphere_Application_Server#Version_6.1
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18. Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2017 02:36:04 UTC Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1)

    • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
    Hmm. #Eagle is an implementation of the #Tcl scripting language for the Common Language Runtime (CLR). It is written completely in C#. https://sourceforge.net/projects/eagle/ !TclTk for dotNet
    
    It seems to be currently maintained, as opposed to #TclSharp https://sourceforge.net/projects/tclcsharp which seems to have ended over a decade ago.
19. Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Friday, 10-Feb-2017 05:02:02 UTC Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1)

    • Markov Dosto(y)evsky
    • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
    @question Are you still looking for a smaller implementation of #Tcl? #JimTcl may be what you're looking for. http://jim.tcl.tk/index.html/doc/www/www/index.html !tcltk #Jim
    • Markov Dosto(y)evsky (question)'s status on Friday, 10-Feb-2017 05:06:15 UTC Markov Dosto(y)evsky

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      Baby, overwhelmed by how many (so far: 12) want my free hugs
20. Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1) (lnxw48a1)'s status on Thursday, 09-Feb-2017 00:45:41 UTC Linux Walt (@lnxw48a1)

    • Markov Dosto(y)evsky
    • The Tcl scripting language and related projects
    @question Since you've been looking for a minimal implementaion of #Tcl, you should take a look at ParTcl. https://github.com/zserge/partcl !tcltk
    • Markov Dosto(y)evsky (question)'s status on Thursday, 09-Feb-2017 00:46:44 UTC Markov Dosto(y)evsky

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      Sweetie, I can't keep my eyes open any more