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@mangeurdenuage @sim why are you lets-playing my post. and its not about dead people, its about a still living ideology. nobody fears the people taking down these statues, but they will think about why they are being taken down and from there ignorance is avoided.
the point isnt "these guys arent me so why should i be blamed for it", it's that people exist now who are just as bad or worse with their beliefs and keeping things to validate them around is bad.
>This is ancient history the people are already dead and their memories lies in what is left.
yet this dailystormer drama shit happens today. ideology's dont die like people do.
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@realpennyfortheguy @sim look i ain't really reading this argument but god damn @sim that's a horrible argument. why would you keep a statue meant to commemorate someone who wanted to erase you around, just so you can be like "lets always remember that guy who gave us all these issues"
fuck sakes. there is reason people leave their abusers. tattoo over scars. yes, these things happened. but we don't need to be grateful that they existed. but rather that we still exist in the face of them.
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@delores @mangeurdenuage @sim but some ideology do need to die like people do the stautes are part of history and need to be preserved whats next? nuke mount rushmore because we don't like georage washington?
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@mangeurdenuage @delores well bad ideologies need to be stopped because i dislike being called a nazi by alt left loons when i am centered right but sure i think nazi jokes are funny.
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@1iceloops123 @delores @mangeurdenuage @sim Some of them could be preserved in historical sites. Mt Rushmore is certainly historical. The majority of these statues, on the other hand, were set up in the 1900s as threats to the local Black populations, and should have been removed by the state and local governments years ago.
I spent a few months working in #Mississippi (where the majority of the residents are Black), including in temporary federal offices in county courthouses. I can certainly tell you that _I_ didn't feel _history_ when I had to pass the Confederate monuments in front of those courthouses. I knew the fact that those statues were still in place was their way of saying they were not afraid to get out the rope.
Where the statues don't belong: places of honor, such as courthouses, schools, the state's capitol building.
Where the statues do belong: museums, historic monuments, cemeteries, sites of important events, such as Civil War battles.
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There is one court house where statues of confederate leaders belong: Appomattox Court House https://www.nps.gov/apco/index.htm
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@delores Maybe for future generations sake? You may have lived through the shit but generations down the line, they won't have. If you erase everything, you live in shame like germany has... and people won't understand why beyond what you tell them. But accounts aren't always reliable. Why should future generations believe you if they only have what you tell them? The history is evidence and a reminder for them about how things were and how bad things could get. It could also be viewed as evidence/validation that you went through that shit yourself for your own mind, rather than having it completely erased and left with just the memory. Some people might start to doubt themselves. How someone decides to cope should be down to them, not the whole of society to remove all traces that the abuse happened.
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@delores @mangeurdenuage And it would be a crying shame to lose everything that the romans or monarchy left behind in my country, just because someone revives what they did and we mustn't validate that! We'd better smash all those castles, palaces, bathhouses, roads, artwork, statues, etc. Why is it bad to keep these things around as a reminder? Why must you associate the two? It's not like you're going to stop the ideology because you smashed a statue. You already invalidate these people. Why do you think that they would care about that? At most, you may make them angry if they did care about a monument... so you'd just escalate things. Again, the loss will be felt on those people that do care about history, that would want to learn about it and maybe not repeat it.
Didn't I already say that I feel sad/pissed when I see defaced statues at places of worship? I still get to see these statues... what you are saying is that no one should get to because it might validate people in the present or because they were abusers. We saw castles destroyed so they couldn't be used again, ones that were left to ruin... that is another loss of beauty that people won't properly get to admire. What they represent is atrocious when you think about it, but they've been re-purposed so that we get a glimpse into what historians think happened there. Or do you seriously think that we'd be better off if we destroyed the statues in palaces due to politics? That we should go around destroying property?
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@lnxw48a1 @mangeurdenuage @1iceloops123
It depends... there are cases where statues should be kept in courthouses, schools and state's capitol building. Like if it is a catholic school, you'd expect to see statues that depict Mary or Jesus, or perhaps something else related to the religion. You could make a case for the founding fathers or statues that represent law in courthouses from the past, especially if they were put into the original design. Sadly, it's not just confederate statues that we're talking about here now.
Of course, I'd prefer them to be removed for preservation purposes than destroyed, defaced or decapitated if they must be removed. The problem is how the removal is done, and that some of these statues are destroyed in the process of removing them, unfortunately. It's just not done with due care right now. Then of course the thugs that just destroy it... that's not right. If it is removed, they should be involving the local community in that decision.
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@sim @mangeurdenuage @1iceloops123 I do agree that the state or local government should be doing the removing. Unfortunately, those were the very institutions that both set up the statues and continue to maintain them. Both "remove all" and "remove none" are extreme positions that cannot be accomodated.
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@sim @mangeurdenuage @lnxw48a1 yeah atleast put them in a museum and replace the spots with something great but it kinda makes me sad that no one can own the confederate flag anymore i seen a few houses have them but where i live its small and mostly old people.