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Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Jun-2017 01:42:27 UTC Danyl Strype @woozle the codbase was inherited from an abandoned project, created by a now defunct team. The lead developer's current priorities are: -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 11-Jun-2017 10:00:02 UTC Danyl Strype @natecull @woozle @dredmorbius one thing that's still missing from wiki is the ability to maintain 'minority report' version (forks). -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 11-Jun-2017 10:00:56 UTC Danyl Strype @natecull @woozle @dredmorbius Cunningham's Smallest Federated Wiki concept is quite exciting in this regard. -
Nate Cull (natecull@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 11-Jun-2017 10:14:51 UTC Nate Cull @dredmorbius @strypey @woozle And that's fine - I'm an adult, the web is big, and I can search. It's okay as long as nobody is trying to force me to use Wikipedia as my one source of knowledge.
It might be nice to be able to use unified tools while participating in disjoint communities, though.
Danyl Strype repeated this. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 12-Jun-2017 02:17:12 UTC Danyl Strype @natecull @woozle @dredmorbius I started #CounterClaim to host the primary research that #Wikipedia can't, simply because its an encylopedia -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 12-Jun-2017 02:19:19 UTC Danyl Strype @natecull @woozle "unified tools while participating in disjoint communities" is a crucial part of solutions to the echo chamber problem Hallå Kitteh likes this. -
Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Monday, 12-Jun-2017 02:26:37 UTC Hallå Kitteh @strypey @natecull @woozle Aren't the disjoint communities the echo chambers? -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 12-Jun-2017 02:29:03 UTC Danyl Strype @woozle tell me more about this "structured debate" concept. Do you have some documentation somewhere? -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 12-Jun-2017 02:30:55 UTC Danyl Strype @woozle having multiple copies is great for redundancy, but introduces a growing version management problem. I think GIT could be a solution -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 12-Jun-2017 02:36:34 UTC Danyl Strype @natecull @clacke when you really start looking into things its amazing how many people who consider themselves informed do basically that -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 12-Jun-2017 02:36:56 UTC Danyl Strype @clacke yes, what's your point? -
Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Monday, 12-Jun-2017 02:41:33 UTC Hallå Kitteh @strypey You make it sound like the global discourse is the echo chamber, and the solution is seeking out likeminded people who won't weigh people down with boring debunkings. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 12-Jun-2017 02:47:53 UTC Danyl Strype @clacke sorry, I don't follow. Have you read the thread our conversation is coming out of? If not, its not surprising you're confused. -
Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Monday, 12-Jun-2017 03:07:35 UTC Hallå Kitteh @strypey No, because Mastodon destroys threads for everyone else.
I thought you meant that your site was an example of shared tools, but now I see that you meant hosting minority opinions on the same site as the consensus article.
That would be an interesting experiment, but I would worry about false balance. People might come away thinking the various minority opinions are equally plausible.
I guess what I'm saying is Wikipedia is intended for the disinterested masses, for everything else, there's the real internet. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 12-Jun-2017 04:33:46 UTC Danyl Strype @clacke isn't the consensus article itself just as subject to a risk of false balance? Minority reports could be used to address that -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 12-Jun-2017 04:34:47 UTC Danyl Strype @clacke my main focus here is not on pronouncements for consumption by passive readers. #Wikipedia is an adequate tool for that purpose. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 12-Jun-2017 04:36:05 UTC Danyl Strype @clacke I want tools for active deliberation, for people more interested in knowing when they're wrong, rather than always being right -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 12-Jun-2017 04:37:12 UTC Danyl Strype @clacke these could be useful for scholarly debate about "facts" that can be checked by testing against reality. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 12-Jun-2017 04:38:00 UTC Danyl Strype @clacke But they're essential for productive discussion about inherently subjective topics, like political-economic issues -
Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2017 00:49:07 UTC Hallå Kitteh @strypey I mean false balance as "giving the impression that there's a debate when really there is consensus with some dissent". When there is no settled consensus, WP says nothing, or reports on the debate. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2017 09:49:11 UTC Danyl Strype @clacke So... who has the authority to decide when "there's a debate", and when there's only "dissent"? Is there really a difference? -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2017 09:52:14 UTC Danyl Strype @woozle #CounterClaim is a project, hosted on #CoActivate.org for now, but I want to set up a wiki that allows federation or forking (GIT?) -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2017 09:54:20 UTC Danyl Strype @woozle I haven't look into how #FedWiki does it, but I'm guessing there is a standard API for federated authentication and permissions? -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2017 10:58:58 UTC Danyl Strype @woozle Yes, #Hubzilla uses #Zot for everything, except federation with #Diaspora, which uses Diaspora's roll-your-own variant of #OStatus -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2017 11:35:22 UTC Danyl Strype @woozle #InstaGov looks interesting, need to read more specifics. Keen to get your thoughts on the #CoActivate tools. More work needed -
Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Tuesday, 13-Jun-2017 14:49:08 UTC Hallå Kitteh @strypey The community at large does a pretty good job at sorting out what's not yet proven, what's decisively proven and what's been refuted as unproven and unplausible.
I used to be so open-minded that my mind almost fell out, but after three decades of failing to see anything useful come out of it, I've realized that lone mavericks seldom bring anything useful to the table, and the system, flawed and human as it is, pretty much works. We've seen in the last 100 years several breakthroughs by entirely new ideas that shook the borders of the existing knowledge, yet people claim that centuries- or millenia-old ideas that failed to prove themselves are being held back by inertia. I'm not buying it. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jun-2017 05:04:05 UTC Danyl Strype @clacke "The community at large does a pretty good job at sorting out..." I see. Where and how do we do this? Could it not be improved on? -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jun-2017 05:07:42 UTC Danyl Strype @clacke worth pointing out that #Stallman started out as a "lone maverick", as did #Torvalds, as does every truly ground-breaking thinker -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jun-2017 05:10:06 UTC Danyl Strype @clacke but let's say you're right that every dissenter accused of wearing a "tinfoil hat" is wrong. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jun-2017 05:11:01 UTC Danyl Strype @clacke Could we come up with a better system of deliberation allowing dissenters to discover, together, why and exactly how we're wrong? -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jun-2017 05:11:47 UTC Danyl Strype @clacke because every new generation throughout history has challenged the "common sense" it receives from the previous one. This won't stop -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jun-2017 05:14:58 UTC Danyl Strype @clacke neither would we want it to. As Thomas Kuhn describes, sometimes older people cannot change their minds in the face of new evidence -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jun-2017 05:18:00 UTC Danyl Strype @woozle #CoActivate is more a set of groupware tools (blog, wiki, mailing lists, task lists) for project groups, with a single sign-on -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jun-2017 05:18:50 UTC Danyl Strype @woozle there's many more tools I'd like to see added, but the idea is project members can set up one account, instead of one for each tool -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jun-2017 05:22:04 UTC Danyl Strype @woozle the main benefit that attracted me was being able to set up a set of project-specific mailing lists, without running a mailserver -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jun-2017 05:23:58 UTC Danyl Strype @woozle #CoActivate is live again. We need a bit of sysadmin assistance, which @silverwizard is going to be providing, starting soon -
Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jun-2017 06:10:41 UTC Hallå Kitteh @strypey Exactly. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jun-2017 10:35:12 UTC Danyl Strype @woozle disclaimer: I'm a longtime user and spam pruner on #CoActivate, not sysadmin or developer. Working on upskilling so I can help more -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jun-2017 10:37:08 UTC Danyl Strype @woozle current #CoActivate is a combination of both roll-your-own and imported bits (eg #Xinha), nested in a #Plone / #Zope platform. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jun-2017 11:06:22 UTC Danyl Strype @woozle I've thought about a decision-making tool, but I'd probably go for #Loomio. Higher priorities to me are things like events calendars -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jun-2017 11:06:57 UTC Danyl Strype @woozle ...and realtime chat -
Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Thursday, 15-Jun-2017 09:43:30 UTC Hallå Kitteh @strypey While I think the world doesn't need a more diverse Wikipedia to directly increase our knowledge -- I think all the various fields of research have their communities and tools for discourse that work well enough for them, and Wikipedia is useful as a gateway for people outside those fields -- Wikipedia does have a problem with declining editor engagement[1] and your model might attract more editors, which might as an extension increase the knowledge dissemination in the world. -
Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Thursday, 15-Jun-2017 09:46:27 UTC Hallå Kitteh [1] https://lobste.rs/s/akhss0/wikipedia_adventure -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2017 03:05:32 UTC Danyl Strype @woozle I find #Loomio useful for project groups, so suitable for CoA projects. #LiquidFeedback sounds great for larger scale decisions. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2017 03:08:20 UTC Danyl Strype @woozle the #Zot protocol and the #Hubzilla proof-of-concept are amazing from a user POV. I'm keen to test more with a self-hosted hub. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2017 03:10:48 UTC Danyl Strype @woozle mostly though email at present, but we are experimenting with a private Loomio group as a way of archiving those emails in thread. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2017 03:11:05 UTC Danyl Strype @woozle we do try to eat our own dogfood as much as possible... -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2017 03:56:46 UTC Danyl Strype @clacke I'd like to comment on that #Lobste.rs thread, but I don't have an account yet. Can you invite me? -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2017 03:58:31 UTC Danyl Strype @clacke exactly. The main benefit of #GIT workflow over existing #MediaWiki workflow is that nobody can delete my version of my work. -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2017 04:00:57 UTC Danyl Strype @clacke so if I spend time on edits and especially on new pages, even if they don't end up part of canonical #Wikipedia, they're never lost -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2017 04:52:21 UTC Danyl Strype @clacke I can continue to develop my text and references and argue for their inclusion in #Wikipedia, and/ or I can use them elsewhere. -
Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2017 11:39:30 UTC Hallå Kitteh @strypey PM an e-mail address to @clackemovedtoheldscalla and I'll send you an invite. -
Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Sunday, 18-Jun-2017 11:41:34 UTC Hallå Kitteh @strypey Have you looked at Ward's own #smallestfederatedwiki?
http://fed.wiki.org/ -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2017 02:13:29 UTC Danyl Strype @clacke @clackemovedtoheldscalla my contacts (including email address) can be found here
http://qttr.at/1vdy -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2017 02:14:53 UTC Danyl Strype @clacke he's certainly grasped the problem that needs solving. I like the federated approach but the #UX needs work. -
Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2017 02:28:22 UTC Hallå Kitteh @strypey Yes. Most people looking at it just find it confusing and leave. The design is a bit too introspective and tries to be clever. -
LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} (lnxw48a1@nu.federati.net)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2017 04:04:01 UTC LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} @clacke @strypey I'm just hoping that once it is feature-complete and working reliably, they adapt and publish their federation protocol, so that other wiki software can adopt it. Hallå Kitteh likes this. -
LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} (lnxw48a1@nu.federati.net)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2017 04:18:40 UTC LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} @clacke @strypey "They" being the SFW devs. -
Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2017 05:18:35 UTC Hallå Kitteh @lnxw48a1 @strypey
> We'll stop calling sites pioneers when the federation matures to the point that serious content is trusted to the federation. We're not there yet, intentionally. Come explore with us.
https://github.com/WardCunningham/Smallest-Federated-Wiki/wiki/List-of-Pioneers
Last edited in 2012. :-( -
Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2017 05:20:33 UTC Hallå Kitteh @strypey @lnxw48a1 https://github.com/WardCunningham/Smallest-Federated-Wiki/wiki *was* edited as late as last year, adding several "DONE." to bullet points. -
alanz (alanz@mastodon.land)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2017 07:32:01 UTC alanz @clacke @lnxw48a1 @strypey @clacke well, see https://github.com/fedwiki, where it has moved
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Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2017 07:53:56 UTC Hallå Kitteh @alanz @strypey @lnxw48a1 Ah! Thanks. In conversation permalink -
jrmy (jrmy@plateia.org)'s status on Monday, 19-Jun-2017 12:16:00 UTC jrmy @lnxw48a1 @strypey @clacke Interesting to see. We'll follow its development with great interest. In conversation permalink -
Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Jun-2017 01:43:36 UTC Danyl Strype @woozle oops! Replying to an old post I already replied to. I can carry on with the #CoActivate priorities list if you're interested. In conversation permalink
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